A Protestant Speaks About The Church
[1] James: Catholicism used to burn people having it translations of the Bible (I copied verbatim, and I think he means translating the Bible....but you get the gist.)
They are political something the first congregations were not They were for the kingdom of the Heavens that will crush and put an end to all these Kingdoms at Armageddon.
The Catholic Church is similar to Islam...They may have actually created Islam or the ones that control the whole.
You may have noticed that James doesn't give us much to go on - mostly references to things with no details. Unfortunately, this is often case with these scenarios.
Moreover, these things are primarily erroneous personal opinion, and serve mostly to prove that friend James has been misled by the obstinant enemies of the
Church. These people have always promoted their own "versions" of the truth, in an
attempt to make themselves seem like the only "correct," pure believers.
It's not his fault that he repeats their falsehoods 3rd or 4th hand...he has simply been taught to accept these errors as fact,
without seeking the reality behind them.
As they say, "Lies fly
fast, while Truth comes limping after."
So lets take a look at these one by one....
[1] "William
Tyndale"
Few episodes from the past are trundled out by anti-Catholic Protestants as much as the death of William Tyndale. Any mention of the Bible in their presence seems to automatically trigger this response. And it is always some version of, "....he was murdered by the Church for translating the Bible!"
Surprise! That's partly true - he WAS murdered.
But the facts of his death are very far from what anti-Catholic conspiracy theorists would have us imagine. To know what really happened, go to the page at the following link and you will learn more about this AND the Bible than you could imagine:
The Bible Chained
[2] "Also, Hitler was a Catholic that was never excommunicated."
Excommunication
is a topic that very few non-Catholics should opine upon. It is complicated and exceedingly rare to find anyone outside the Church who truly understands it. In fact, plenty of Catholics are fuzzy on it.
So let's get to the bottom of this "Hitler ex-communcation" matter.
What is Excommunication?
Excommunication is the Catholic Church’s most severe penalty. However, it isnt castigative in the worldly sense. Rather, it is a medicinal and spiritual, "wake-up call" - not a punishment or permanent banishment. Its intent is to encourage repentance, amend grave behavior, and guide the
individual back to full communion.
The reasons for excommunication—outlined in the Code of Canon Law—involve extremely grave, spiritually damaging offenses. These are categorized into...
1. Automatic
(latae
sententiae)
excommunications
2. Imposed
(ferendae
sententiae)
excommunications.
1. Automatic Excommunications (Latae Sententiae)
These
penalties take effect immediately the moment the offense is
committed, provided the person knows and/or doesn't care that the act is grave and carries an
excommunication penalty.
- Apostasy,
Heresy, or Schism:
Completely rejecting the Christian faith, obstinately denying a
core Catholic dogma, or rejecting the authority of the Pope. (PS for this reason, Protestants by and large are automatically excommunicated)
- Procuring
or Performing an Abortion:
Incurred by the person who has the abortion, as well as necessary
accomplices without whose help the act could not have occurred.
- Desecration
of the Eucharist:
Throwing away, taking, or retaining consecrated Holy Communion for
a sacrilegious purpose.
- Violent
Attack on the Pope:
Physically attacking or harming the Roman Pontiff.
- Absolving
an Accomplice in a Sexual Sin:
A priest who gives sacramental absolution to an accomplice with
whom they have committed a sin against the Sixth Commandment. (adultery/unchastity)
- Unauthorized
Ordination of a Bishop:
A bishop who consecrates someone else as a bishop without a papal
mandate, and the person who receives the consecration.
- Directly
Violating the Seal of Confession:
A priest who directly reveals the sins confessed by a penitent. The seal only binds the listener. The penitent himself is not restricted from revealing what they said or what the priest told them to do.
2.
Imposed Excommunications (Ferendae
Sententiae)
These
are applied formally after a canonical trial or investigation, often
following repeated warnings. They are declared when a Catholic
commits a highly scandalous crime or persists in violating Church
law, such as:
Grave disobedience to Church leadership.
Persistent illegal activities, such as unlawfully seizing Church property or engaging in fraudulent activity tied to Church offices.
Conditions
for the Penalty
To
be excommunicated (especially automatically), strict conditions must
be met. The individual must:
Be at least 16 years old.
Have full use of reason.
Understand and disregard that their actions would be a serious violation of Church law.
Act freely, without the threat of grave force or fear.
For more specific criteria on the canonical guidelines, you can review the full Code of Canon Law Book VI or read further on Catholic.com.
So why didn't The
Catholic Church issue a public decree of
excommunication against Adolf Hitler? In fact, he was excommunicated from The Church. Hitler was considered automatically ex-communicated through his actions
(latae
sententiae). But, a formal, public decree would have triggered severe
retaliatory violence against millions of Catholics and Jews.
So the decision to not make his excommunication into a global news event was a mix of obvious canonical law, the strategic
reality of totalitarian power, and the primary purpose of
excommunication itself.
1.
He Was Considered "Automatically" Excommunicated
Under
the 1917 Code of Canon Law in effect during World War II, a baptized
Catholic who publicly abandoned the faith or embraced a pagan
ideology automatically incurred a latae
sententiae
(automatic) excommunication for apostasy.
Hitler
rejected Catholic dogmas, completely ceased practicing the faith,
and openly promoted an ideology of non-Christian, Nazi racial neo-paganism...and he wilfully murdered millions of people. These were irreconcilable with Church teaching, and the Vatican viewed him as already - and deliberately - cut off
from the Church. So he WAS excommunicated, latae sententiae. However this was not made into a public spectacle because...
2. Massive Reprisals Were Likely
The primary reason Pope Pius XII did not issue a public, official declaration against Hitler was the certainty of severe backlash
against the innocent. Historical precedent showed that whenever the
Church openly confronted the Nazi regime, the regime retaliated
violently against vulnerable populations. For example....
The Dutch Lesson: When the Catholic bishops of the Netherlands publicly protested the deportation of Jews in 1942, the Nazis retaliated by immediately rounding up and murdering all Catholic-born Jews in the country (including philosopher Edith Stein).
The Gestapo Backlash: When Pope Pius XI issued the anti-Nazi encyclical Mit brennender Sorge ("With Burning Concern") in 1937, it led to massive Gestapo crackdowns, church closures, and the arrests and killing of priests.
- Risk to Resistance Networks: A formal papal decree would have likely forced Hitler to occupy Vatican City, dissolve the German Church entirely, and arrest and execute thousands of clergy who were secretly using Church properties to hide and save European Jews and other targeted individuals.
4.
Local Bishops Did Excommunicate Nazis
While
the Pope did not issue a public, global declaration of excommunication against Hitler, German bishops took early
administrative action against the movement.
For instance, in 1930, the Bishop of Mainz excommunicated all registered Nazi Party members in his diocese and banned uniformed Nazis from entering churches.
- In 1931, the German Bishops' Conference expanded this, declaring Nazism fundamentally incompatible with Catholic conscience.
[3] James: "They disown him by their works and teach the traditions of men rather the Bible."
I'm not 100% sure what the first part means, although one would think that disowning Hitler was a good thing. However, the term, "works," is poison to most fundamental and Evangelical Protestants. They equate it with lacking "faith" and trying to buy your way to heaven. It is a convoluted theology, that can't be fully covered here.
But the accusation that The Church teaches, "the traditions of men" is one of the most often repeated, and it goes back to the sola scriptura concept. In short, they mean that if something is not expressly written in the Bible in exact English, as they understand it, then it is invalid and can't be done.
But this is another manufactured notion they impose on everyone else. The Bible, for its part, says nothing of the sort; it never says that, "Bible only," is in effect. This makes it extremely odd that they wield this weapon against others...since it is not even in the book they seem to worship.
In fact, The Church has always taken its teachings from both Scripture and the Sacred Tradition that GAVE us the Bible. Both work together like hand and glove. But the anti-Catholic Protestant lacks divine tradition before the early 16th century (and most far less), so he has only the Bible and thinks it is all there is - so he cannot grasp any other connection.
And if we are honest, there are a great many things that Protestants do and have done in their own growth that aren't expressly written in the Bible. For just one example, go to this link and have your ideas challenged about The Church and Protestantism...
Its Not Biblical!
[4] James: Pope kissing the Quran
My first reaction to this is, "So? I kiss my dog on the head now and then - that doesn't mean I am breaking trust with my wife."
But, to be fair, I didn't have much knowledge about this, so I did some research on it.
And it is true. Pope
John Paul II did kiss a copy of the Quran on May 14, 1999. It was as
a spontaneous
gesture of profound cultural respect and interfaith solidarity toward
a visiting Iraqi delegation.
The
action was NOT an endorsement of Islamic theology, but rather, a
pastoral sign of goodwill during a period of intense global and
political tension.
The
Context of the Event
The Meeting: The Pope hosted an audience at the Vatican with a delegation from Iraq. The group included both Christian and Muslim leaders, notably the Chaldean Catholic Patriarch of Baghdad, a Sunni administrative president, and a Shi'ite imam.
The Gift: At the end of the meeting, the delegation presented the Pope with a copy of the Quran as a formal gift.
The Action: Upon receiving the holy book, Pope John Paul II bowed slightly and kissed it.
The
Reasons Behind the Gesture
- A
Sign of Mutual Respect:
In Middle Eastern and various religious traditions, kissing a highly
revered object or gift is a common sign of deep respect. The Pope
used the gesture to show that he valued the God given dignity and humanity of
the people who offered it, while not endorsing their faith,
per se. That is, in fact, what all Christians are called to do.
- Solidarity
with the Iraqi People:
At the time, Iraq was suffering under strict international economic
sanctions, and the threat of war was rising. By honoring the
delegation’s holy book, the Pope aimed to broadcast a message of
compassion and peace directly to the citizens of Iraq.
- Commitment
to Interfaith Dialogue:
A major theme of John Paul II's papacy was building bridges between
different world religions. He consistently emphasized the God-given, divine dignity of
all humanity — irrespective of religion - rather than focusing
solely on doctrinal conflicts and hatred of others for their faith.
Again Christians are called to bring others to Christ in conversion and change – not to condemn them for how they believe prior to that
conversion.
Reaction
and Criticism
As you might expect, the
gesture sparked intense debate. Many praised it as a historic
breakthrough for Christian-Muslim relations. However, it upset
traditionalist and conservative Catholics...and obviously our friend, James.
Critics argued that
kissing the text was confusing or inappropriate, given that Islamic
theology explicitly denies core Christian dogmas like the divinity,
crucifixion, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Defenders and
Catholic scholars note that the action must be viewed in the same
context as the Pope's lifelong habit of kissing the ground when
arriving in a new country - it was a symbolic expression of love for
the people, the humanity of Iraqi's, but not an alignment with their
specific beliefs.
[5] James: "Promoting
Gay Marriage"
This is one of the more ludicrous modern claims against the
Church, made all the more so since it is very easy to verify.
So let's be clear:
The
Catholic Church does
not now, or ever, promote or recognize gay marriage
under any circumstances. Its teachings strictly define marriage as a
holy sacrament that can only exist between one
man and one woman.
1.
The Theological Definition
The
Church’s stance is rooted in its interpretation of scripture and
natural law, which dictates that marriage has two core, and
inseparable, purposes:
- The
Unitive Purpose:
The total, lifelong commitment and self-giving between a man and a
woman.
- The
Procreative Purpose:
Being naturally open to the transmission of human life.
Because
same-sex unions cannot fulfill the biological procreative
requirement, the Church teaches that they cannot be considered, "in
a marriage".
The Church has no authority to alter the definition of sacramental marriage. It views marriage as a divinely instituted reality as described in Scripture, rather than a humanly constructed social contract. Here is another example that the Church adheres to, and teaches Scripture.
2. The Distinction of "Fiducia Supplicans"
Recent
confusion often stems from a December 2023 Vatican document called
Fiducia
Supplicans.
- What
it is:
A guideline allowing priests to give brief, spontaneous pastoral
blessings
to individuals
in same-sex relationships who ask for God's help. That is the same
blessing that can be given to any other human being who asks for God's help and blessing. It
simply clarifies that mono-sexual indivuals are not excluded from
such blessings.
- What
it is not:
However, it is not
an endorsement of the relationship status of these individuals.
- Strict Boundaries:
Likewise, the document explicitly
forbids these blessings from mimicking a wedding ceremony, utilizing
any official liturgy, or happening in tandem with a civil union. It
explicitly
reconfirmed that the Church's traditional definition of marriage
remains completely unchanged.
3.
Pastoral Care vs. Doctrinal Approval
The
Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) mandates that men and women
who experience same-sex attraction must be treated with, "respect,
compassion, and sensitivity" as children of God. This is the
same compassion that all Christians are to give to all human beings in the sight of God.
However, it firmly separates this pastoral requirement for kindness and charity from the approval of same-sex sexual activity or marital unions, both
of which it views as contrary to biblical restrictions against sodomy, fornication, and Church law.
The CCC also goes on to say that those with same-sex attractions should practice chastity, a deep adherence to God's natural law, and live a chaste life in accordance with the Scripture.
[6] James: "Is
that what you’re defending?"
Absolutely and un-apologetically
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