** Some Would Deny Christ On The Cross
....And What That Reveals About The Theology of Suffering.
Or rather, the lack of it.
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Walk into most any Traditional 15th-20th century-built Catholic church, and you’ll see the crucified Christ — bleeding, pierced, crowned with thorns.
It is usually fronat and center above the altar - The Crucifix of Cathoicism.
It’s more than art. And its not intended to offend modern sensibilities.
No, it’s there as a reminder that salvation was not won in any other way. It tells us that we cannot attain salvation without The Cross of Christ's suffering.
Period.
This is referred to as the Theology of Suffering.
By contrast, walk into Protestant churches and they usually display a bare cross, and many of the more recent Protestant sects won't have any cross at all.
To those that do have one, it's a symbol of winning, and the "good" of Christ.
In their mind, Jesus's death and suffering are after-thoughts..."Take Him Down fro"m the cross," they'll tell you. That's "cross"with a lower case, "c".
The crucifix, then, is seen as, unnecessary and even offensive, just another, "graven image" - a misunderstood phrase that they like apply to any symbol or icon of which they disapprove.... especially if it is connected to the Catholic Church.
The Blood of the Lamb mentioned in Revelation 7, has little meaning, in this view.
The Blood of the Lamb mentioned in Revelation 7, has little meaning, in this view.
While they claim this attitude focuses attention on Christ’s resurrection, it also willingly creates three very troubling scenarios:
1. It wipes out Christ's own commandments to us.
2. It removes the visible reminder of His Passion and suffering — which He said must, and would,
occur.
3. It turns a blind eye on our own sufferng in this life - which He said will be part of our Christian existence.
Lets take a deep dive to see why this lack of Suffering Theology is dangerous.
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I. Catholics: Salvation Requires the Cross
Catholics believe that Christ's suffering wasn't just substitutionary — it was invitational.
Catholics believe that Christ's suffering wasn't just substitutionary — it was invitational.
“Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me.” (Matthew 10:38)
Christ Himself made it clear throughout His ministry that the Cross was going to happen, and that it was pivotal. Likewise, The Church teaches that our suffering has meaning when it is united to Christ.
Christ Himself made it clear throughout His ministry that the Cross was going to happen, and that it was pivotal. Likewise, The Church teaches that our suffering has meaning when it is united to Christ.
Catholics are called to offer up their sufferings — NOT to avoid them.
Fasting, doing penance, and the Way of the Cross are not outdated traditions; they are tools of transformation.
In this view: No Cross, no salvation.
I. Protestants: Faith Alone, the Cross is in the Past
Protestants, in the main, hold tight to a different theology they developed on their own, known as, "sola fide" — salvation by faith alone. The Cross is not connected to it.
I. Protestants: Faith Alone, the Cross is in the Past
Protestants, in the main, hold tight to a different theology they developed on their own, known as, "sola fide" — salvation by faith alone. The Cross is not connected to it.
While they take note of The Cross, rendering it some importance, it is with a lower case,"c." It is generally treated as just a Christian symbol that "represents" Jesus, as past event, rather than demanding present participation.
The focus is on only one part of Christ’s total mission, not on what the believer must endure in His name.
They also forget (or never knew) that Martin Luther added that word, "alone," to Romans (3:28...4:5), in HIS version of the Bible...which he insisted be published, despite objections from the people that made the Bible available in the first place: The Catholic Church. It appeared in all the subsequent Bibles that derive from Luthers version. Which is most of them in the West.(1)
In this way, they cling tight to the idea that salvation is a, "free gift" received if one says the name, "Jesus," and has faith in Christ's finished work. To them you don't have to do anyting else, despite what Christ Himself said throughout His ministry.
In this way, such passages like those in Romans (despite being doctored) and the idea of , "faith alone" became a lynch pin for Protestatism.
PS It is also conveniently forgotten that Luther made it clear that inactive faith, that is, faith without transformative action, aka, "works," is just an abstract concept.
In this way, they cling tight to the idea that salvation is a, "free gift" received if one says the name, "Jesus," and has faith in Christ's finished work. To them you don't have to do anyting else, despite what Christ Himself said throughout His ministry.
In this way, such passages like those in Romans (despite being doctored) and the idea of , "faith alone" became a lynch pin for Protestatism.
PS It is also conveniently forgotten that Luther made it clear that inactive faith, that is, faith without transformative action, aka, "works," is just an abstract concept.
Because of this emphasis on "faith over anything else," the concept of offering suffering, or using trials for spiritual growth, is not prominent. The Christian life, then, is more about winning in the moment, and not about endurance through trials..., more about, "being blessed," than our tribulations-as-holy sacrifice.
Some writers have likened this notion to winning a carnival prize, just by showing up. This has led many Protestant traditions to bypass, or dismiss a theology of suffering entirely.
II. Modern Catholic Churches: Following the Same Path?
Disturbingly, even modern Catholic churches are replacing the crucifix with a Risen Christ, separated from the cross — a strange and confusing image.
Disturbingly, even modern Catholic churches are replacing the crucifix with a Risen Christ, separated from the cross — a strange and confusing image.
This is a recent innovation of MEN, one that is not found in tradition or Scripture.
It's a modern, "feel good," move which empties the cross of its pain, blood, and sacrifice.
Christ didn’t rise on The Cross — He died on it.
Christ didn’t rise on The Cross — He died on it.
To place a resurrected body on or adjacent to the instrument of torture is to distort the message of Calvary.
It's a temptation to skip the meaning of Good Friday and rush straight to Easter Sunday.
But - there is no resurrection without death.
No glory without suffering.
But - there is no resurrection without death.
No glory without suffering.
You cannot have the one without the other...even though you may find it distasteful.
III. The Cross Is Not Just a Symbol — It’s a Way
Christianity without the crucifix risks becoming shallow amd worldly.
III. The Cross Is Not Just a Symbol — It’s a Way
Christianity without the crucifix risks becoming shallow amd worldly.
The bare cross may proclaim Christ is risen — but it does not tell us what it cost.
And more importantly, it does not remind us of what it will cost US!
Jesus calls us not just to believe in Him, but to follow Him — carrying our own crosses. A theology without the crucified Christ leads to a Christianity without endurance, without penance, without transformation.
So what is The Cross which Jesus says to take up, in Luke 9:23?
Jesus calls us not just to believe in Him, but to follow Him — carrying our own crosses. A theology without the crucified Christ leads to a Christianity without endurance, without penance, without transformation.
So what is The Cross which Jesus says to take up, in Luke 9:23?
“If anyone would come after Me, let him deny himself, take up his cross daily, and follow Me” (Luke 9:23)
Here's what “taking up the cross” means:
1. Self-denial: Putting God’s will above your own desires, even when it’s uncomfortable or painful.
2. Suffering with purpose: Accepting the trials, humiliations, sicknesses, or rejections that come your way — not as punishment, but as a chance to grow in holiness by uniting them with Christ’s suffering.
3. Dying to sin: Turning away from pride, lust, greed, and anything that separates you from God.
4. Living for others: The Cross is not just personal suffering — it’s also love in action, like forgiving enemies, serving the poor and sick, or persevering in a difficult vocation.
In short:
The Cross is your personal share in Christ’s redemptive mission — and embracing it daily is the true path to holiness.
"No cross. No salvation. No suffering. No sanctification.
No crucified Christ — no true Christianity."
- St Louis d'Montfort
No crucified Christ — no true Christianity."
- St Louis d'Montfort
How were Catholics prior to 1960 taught to carry their cross ?
1. Daily Offering of Suffering
Catholics were taught to “offer it up” — whether pain, sickness, insults, or poverty — uniting their sufferings with Christ for the salvation of souls and reparation for sin.
> “Offer it up” was a common phrase passed on by mothers and priests alike.
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2. Friday Penance and Fasting
Catholics abstained from meat on Fridays year-round, and observed strict fasts during Lent and vigils. This was not becasue the Church would send 'the fasting mafis' to punish pepole if they didnt - it is a practical and communal way of embracing The Cross.
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3. Devotion to the Stations of the Cross
Practiced especially during Lent, but also at any time, the faithful meditated on Christ’s suffering and offered their own trials in union with His Passion. This devotion was encouraged in nearly every parish.
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4. Mortification and Discipline
This is where modernists tend to lock up - the idea of voluntarily denying onself of anything, of practicing any kind of asceticism is not in their playbook.
The aim of these practices is not to slavishly follow rules that the mean ol'' Pope imposes on Catholics. That's silly anti-Catholic rhetoric.
Rather, its aim is to purposefully, "put to death" sinful desires and habits, in order to achieve spiritual maturity and closer union with God.
It involves disciplined action, deliberately undertaken, to strengthen the will against temptation. And while some take everything to the extreme, mortification is not intended to damage the body, or to cause severe physcial harm.
The practices involved include fasting, enduring discomfort, resisting selfishness, and self-denial of worldly pleasures. Once again the aim is to strengthen the will and overcome temptation, a crucial element of Christian sanctification.
Saints and laypeople alike have practiced this voluntary mortification since before Christ (2) — not out of masochistic self-hatred, or blind obedience to religious leaders, but to grow in virtue and share in Christ’s suffering.
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5. Acceptance of Illness and Death
Before the rise of secular medicine and the prosperity gospel, Catholics embraced sickness, suffering, and death with a supernatural outlook, receiving the Last Rites and viewing death as a participation in Christ’s final agony. And we are still called to this outlook, recognizing that this life is temporary, it may end at any time, and our proper home is a celestial one.
The popular phrase of, "Carpe Diem (Seize the Day)," seems to remind us of that - until one realizes it is interpreted to mean..."do whatever you want now, because you may not be able to tomorrow."
By contrast, the Latin phrase. "Memento Mori" is more to the point of reality. It means, "Remember Your Death"... and by extension, live accordingly.
One of my favorite books, in fact, is along these lines. It is called, "The Art of Dying Well," by Cardinal Robert Bellarmine.
Despite the ominous title, it is actually a joyous, Scripture-filled journey aimed at influencing one to live a sanctified life - NOW - rather than hoping to be saved at the last hour of death.
I encourage you to read it.
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6. Religious Vocations
Priests, monks, and nuns willingly give up marriage, possessions, worldly attachements and personal comfort to live lives of poverty, chastity, and obedience — the three evangelical counsels — for the love of God and the salvation of souls. This isnt "suffering" to them...this is following Christ. Those who don't - or can't - make that choice find this difficult to understand.
This is where the rubber meets the road in the Theology of Suffering...living it, purposefully.
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7. Persecution and Martyrdom
Even in the modern era: Catholics in Mexico (Cristero War, 1920's), Spain (Spanish Civil War, 1930's), and Nazi Europe bore intense persecution, many dying rather than renouncing their faith in the risen Lord throught The Church — literal examples of carrying the Cross to the end.
Today, this persecution continues in some countries where Mohammadism prevails - Nigeria, for example.
Suffering, including death, was part of Christs mission'... He made that clear. Likewise, it must be part of our walk with Him if we are to truly be His disciples.
Protestant way of Life Without the Theology of the Cross
1. Theology: “Faith Alone” — No Redemptive Suffering
Protestant View: Salvation comes by faith alone (sola fide).
Suffering is not seen as redemptive or participatory in Christ’s Passion. There's no “offering it up,” and little theology of penance or mortification.
Result: Suffering is to be avoided, not embraced. Comfort, personal assurance, and blessing become central.
Example:
In many Evangelical communities, illness or hardship is often seen as a lack of, faith or a spiritual failing..., not as a cross to carry.
---
2. No Sacrament of Confession or Penance
By avoiding sacramental confession, penance is also handily dispensed with. There’s no need to spiritually "make up" for sins in union with Christ's suffering, if you don't accept the need for confessing ones sins. Simply saying, "I'm sorry"... is enough.
It is quite common among many Protestant groups, in fact, to dismiss sin and its effects in the main. There is a notion of, "once saved always saved," which means that as long as you "accept Jesus as your Lord and savior" ONCE - your salvation is assured, no matter what. This is a fabrication that arose from Jean Calvins idea of "eternal security of the elect"... being nothing more than his own self-interpretations.
But as one might imagine - this is very popular in the wordly sense that you have a "hall pass" to salvation.
Result: Less - or NO - emphasis on repentance through suffering or discipline.
Example: In Protestant circles, you rarely see practices like fasting, kneeling in contrition, or doing acts of reparation.
---
3. No Monastic or Ascetical Tradition
Those who left The Church to do their own thing* rejected the idea of monasticism. It was another way to sever ties with The Church they abandoned. Monks, nuns, or religious orders that embrace the Cross through poverty, chastity, and obedience were, to them, a hated idea.
Result: No visible witness of lifelong sacrifice and penance for the world.
Example: Countries like England, Germany, and Scandinavia dissolved monasteries after their abandoment of The Church. Centuries of ascetical witness vanished nearly overnight as these regions took up their own self-revealed ideas of Christian living.
---
4. Culture of Prosperity and Individual Comfort
In many Protestant-majority societies (especially in the U.S.), The Cross is often replaced with a focus on prosperity, productivity, and individual happiness.
Result: Suffering is not salvific — it’s something one tries to eliminate, not use for personal sanctification.
Example: The “Prosperity Gospel” in American Evangelicalism is a newly manufactured ideology that teaches true faith leads to wealth, wordly prosperity, good health and happiness — all because God delivers only good things to believers, they say.
If you dont have those things, then your faith is the problem... you are the problem. But', those preachers who proclaim this theology say you can make up for it with more tithes and donations to them.
5. Acceptance of Illness and Death
Before the rise of secular medicine and the prosperity gospel, Catholics embraced sickness, suffering, and death with a supernatural outlook, receiving the Last Rites and viewing death as a participation in Christ’s final agony. And we are still called to this outlook, recognizing that this life is temporary, it may end at any time, and our proper home is a celestial one.
The popular phrase of, "Carpe Diem (Seize the Day)," seems to remind us of that - until one realizes it is interpreted to mean..."do whatever you want now, because you may not be able to tomorrow."
By contrast, the Latin phrase. "Memento Mori" is more to the point of reality. It means, "Remember Your Death"... and by extension, live accordingly.
One of my favorite books, in fact, is along these lines. It is called, "The Art of Dying Well," by Cardinal Robert Bellarmine.
Despite the ominous title, it is actually a joyous, Scripture-filled journey aimed at influencing one to live a sanctified life - NOW - rather than hoping to be saved at the last hour of death.
I encourage you to read it.
---
6. Religious Vocations
Priests, monks, and nuns willingly give up marriage, possessions, worldly attachements and personal comfort to live lives of poverty, chastity, and obedience — the three evangelical counsels — for the love of God and the salvation of souls. This isnt "suffering" to them...this is following Christ. Those who don't - or can't - make that choice find this difficult to understand.
This is where the rubber meets the road in the Theology of Suffering...living it, purposefully.
---
7. Persecution and Martyrdom
Even in the modern era: Catholics in Mexico (Cristero War, 1920's), Spain (Spanish Civil War, 1930's), and Nazi Europe bore intense persecution, many dying rather than renouncing their faith in the risen Lord throught The Church — literal examples of carrying the Cross to the end.
Today, this persecution continues in some countries where Mohammadism prevails - Nigeria, for example.
Suffering, including death, was part of Christs mission'... He made that clear. Likewise, it must be part of our walk with Him if we are to truly be His disciples.
Protestant way of Life Without the Theology of the Cross
1. Theology: “Faith Alone” — No Redemptive Suffering
Protestant View: Salvation comes by faith alone (sola fide).
Suffering is not seen as redemptive or participatory in Christ’s Passion. There's no “offering it up,” and little theology of penance or mortification.
Result: Suffering is to be avoided, not embraced. Comfort, personal assurance, and blessing become central.
Example:
In many Evangelical communities, illness or hardship is often seen as a lack of, faith or a spiritual failing..., not as a cross to carry.
---
2. No Sacrament of Confession or Penance
By avoiding sacramental confession, penance is also handily dispensed with. There’s no need to spiritually "make up" for sins in union with Christ's suffering, if you don't accept the need for confessing ones sins. Simply saying, "I'm sorry"... is enough.
It is quite common among many Protestant groups, in fact, to dismiss sin and its effects in the main. There is a notion of, "once saved always saved," which means that as long as you "accept Jesus as your Lord and savior" ONCE - your salvation is assured, no matter what. This is a fabrication that arose from Jean Calvins idea of "eternal security of the elect"... being nothing more than his own self-interpretations.
But as one might imagine - this is very popular in the wordly sense that you have a "hall pass" to salvation.
Result: Less - or NO - emphasis on repentance through suffering or discipline.
Example: In Protestant circles, you rarely see practices like fasting, kneeling in contrition, or doing acts of reparation.
---
3. No Monastic or Ascetical Tradition
Those who left The Church to do their own thing* rejected the idea of monasticism. It was another way to sever ties with The Church they abandoned. Monks, nuns, or religious orders that embrace the Cross through poverty, chastity, and obedience were, to them, a hated idea.
Result: No visible witness of lifelong sacrifice and penance for the world.
Example: Countries like England, Germany, and Scandinavia dissolved monasteries after their abandoment of The Church. Centuries of ascetical witness vanished nearly overnight as these regions took up their own self-revealed ideas of Christian living.
---
4. Culture of Prosperity and Individual Comfort
In many Protestant-majority societies (especially in the U.S.), The Cross is often replaced with a focus on prosperity, productivity, and individual happiness.
Result: Suffering is not salvific — it’s something one tries to eliminate, not use for personal sanctification.
Example: The “Prosperity Gospel” in American Evangelicalism is a newly manufactured ideology that teaches true faith leads to wealth, wordly prosperity, good health and happiness — all because God delivers only good things to believers, they say.
If you dont have those things, then your faith is the problem... you are the problem. But', those preachers who proclaim this theology say you can make up for it with more tithes and donations to them.
It is a version of Christian teaching that twists and ignores the embracing The Cross that Christ commanded.
---
5. Sunday Worship Without Sacrifice
With no Mass or Eucharistic offering, Protestant worship lacks the re-presentation of Christ's Sacrifice on the altar.
Communion is symbolic, often treated as stage play, but not sacrificial.
Result: The central act of Christian suffering — The Cross — is not visibly or ritually reenacted.
Example:
A Protestant service today often includes punchy music (often rock-styled), strident preaching, Bible study, "free-style" praying, testimonials, altar calls — but no altar, no crucifix, no visible connection to Calvary. This is avoided, since the Theology of the Cross and suffering are downplayed, and even ignored.
---
6. Architecture: Empty (or non-existent) Cross, No Tabernacle, No Saints, No Stations of The Cross.
Protestant churches are either plain, and sterile.... or soemthing like a convention meeting center. The crucifix is replaced with a bare cross - or nothing - or else there's Jumbotron, big-screen display.
Saints — icons of lives given fully to Christ — are rejected entirely. Modern Protestants view these things as demonic idol worship.
Little of the divine is evident. There are no candles, angels, baptismal pools or fonts. But you might find a bulletin board, stage. One gets the sense of a public school theatre combined with a business office. Its an odd mix that smacks of Nominalism.
---
5. Sunday Worship Without Sacrifice
With no Mass or Eucharistic offering, Protestant worship lacks the re-presentation of Christ's Sacrifice on the altar.
Communion is symbolic, often treated as stage play, but not sacrificial.
Result: The central act of Christian suffering — The Cross — is not visibly or ritually reenacted.
Example:
A Protestant service today often includes punchy music (often rock-styled), strident preaching, Bible study, "free-style" praying, testimonials, altar calls — but no altar, no crucifix, no visible connection to Calvary. This is avoided, since the Theology of the Cross and suffering are downplayed, and even ignored.
---
6. Architecture: Empty (or non-existent) Cross, No Tabernacle, No Saints, No Stations of The Cross.
Protestant churches are either plain, and sterile.... or soemthing like a convention meeting center. The crucifix is replaced with a bare cross - or nothing - or else there's Jumbotron, big-screen display.
Saints — icons of lives given fully to Christ — are rejected entirely. Modern Protestants view these things as demonic idol worship.
Little of the divine is evident. There are no candles, angels, baptismal pools or fonts. But you might find a bulletin board, stage. One gets the sense of a public school theatre combined with a business office. Its an odd mix that smacks of Nominalism.
Result: The very environment avoids discomfort,divine mystery, and reminders of suffering.
Example: Compare a medieval Catholic cathedral (with stations of the cross, relics, candles, and crucifixes) with a modern Protestant auditorium-style church: comfort over contemplation.
List of References
1. Matthew 10:38; Luke 9:23 – Jesus commands us to take up our cross daily.
2. 1 Peter 2:21; Romans 8:17 – Suffering with Christ is necessary for glory.
3. St. Augustine, Sermon 96 – Each person bears his own cross through trials.
4. St. Thomas Aquinas, Catena Aurea – Taking up the cross means enduring tribulation for God.
5. St. Louis de Montfort, Letter to the Friends of the Cross – No cross, no salvation.
6. Thomas à Kempis, The Imitation of Christ, Bk 2, Ch. 12 – In the Cross is life and sanctification.
7. Baltimore Catechism (1885), Lesson 7 – Christians must patiently bear suffering as a path to salvation.
8. Pope St. Pius X, Pascendi Dominici Gregis (1907) – Condemns modernism and defends the theology of suffering.
9. Council of Trent, Session VI – Justification involves faith and cooperation through suffering and grace.
There is a ruling by Pope Pius XII in his Encyclical, Mediator Dei, of 20 November 1947, in Section 62, repudiating such Resurrefixes.
“But it is neither wise nor laudable to reduce everything to antiquity by every possible means. Thus, to cite some instances, one would be straying from the so-called "straight path" were he to wish the altar restored to its primitive tableform; were he to want black excluded as a color for the liturgical vestments; were he to forbid the use of sacred images and statues in Churches; were he to order the crucifix so designed that the divine Redeemer’s body shows no trace of His cruel sufferings” ~ Pope Pius XII, Mediator Dei.
Example: Compare a medieval Catholic cathedral (with stations of the cross, relics, candles, and crucifixes) with a modern Protestant auditorium-style church: comfort over contemplation.
List of References
1. Matthew 10:38; Luke 9:23 – Jesus commands us to take up our cross daily.
2. 1 Peter 2:21; Romans 8:17 – Suffering with Christ is necessary for glory.
3. St. Augustine, Sermon 96 – Each person bears his own cross through trials.
4. St. Thomas Aquinas, Catena Aurea – Taking up the cross means enduring tribulation for God.
5. St. Louis de Montfort, Letter to the Friends of the Cross – No cross, no salvation.
6. Thomas à Kempis, The Imitation of Christ, Bk 2, Ch. 12 – In the Cross is life and sanctification.
7. Baltimore Catechism (1885), Lesson 7 – Christians must patiently bear suffering as a path to salvation.
8. Pope St. Pius X, Pascendi Dominici Gregis (1907) – Condemns modernism and defends the theology of suffering.
9. Council of Trent, Session VI – Justification involves faith and cooperation through suffering and grace.
There is a ruling by Pope Pius XII in his Encyclical, Mediator Dei, of 20 November 1947, in Section 62, repudiating such Resurrefixes.
“But it is neither wise nor laudable to reduce everything to antiquity by every possible means. Thus, to cite some instances, one would be straying from the so-called "straight path" were he to wish the altar restored to its primitive tableform; were he to want black excluded as a color for the liturgical vestments; were he to forbid the use of sacred images and statues in Churches; were he to order the crucifix so designed that the divine Redeemer’s body shows no trace of His cruel sufferings” ~ Pope Pius XII, Mediator Dei.
Edited from a FB post.
Footnotes
(1) In recent decades, this state of affairs has been recognized by biblical scholars and publishers outside The Church, and there have been corrections made...sometimes.
The Church has never fostered the "by faith alone" mental image in any Bible it has produced, since the very fist one that was EVER produced in 405AD. It simply was never known until Martin Luther came up it...because it didnt exist.
(2) mortification was traditionally practiced in Judaism, usually in the form of moderate fasting, mourning, or repentance, wearig ashes and camel or goat hair gaments, etc. Severe physical self-harm was not encouraged, but a great many ascetic practices appeared in sects like the Essenes, Pharisees, Nazirites in Christs time. Severe fasting, penance, immersion in icy water, or limited sleep, and so on. So mortification had a deeply seated tradition,
Footnotes
(1) In recent decades, this state of affairs has been recognized by biblical scholars and publishers outside The Church, and there have been corrections made...sometimes.
The Church has never fostered the "by faith alone" mental image in any Bible it has produced, since the very fist one that was EVER produced in 405AD. It simply was never known until Martin Luther came up it...because it didnt exist.
(2) mortification was traditionally practiced in Judaism, usually in the form of moderate fasting, mourning, or repentance, wearig ashes and camel or goat hair gaments, etc. Severe physical self-harm was not encouraged, but a great many ascetic practices appeared in sects like the Essenes, Pharisees, Nazirites in Christs time. Severe fasting, penance, immersion in icy water, or limited sleep, and so on. So mortification had a deeply seated tradition,
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